Avoid Delta and Atlanta

Dave Frightens Me writes:

That is not a civil matter, it's criminal.

It's called civil forfeiture, IIRC.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:15:14 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Dave Frightens Me writes:

That is not a civil matter, it's criminal.

It's called civil forfeiture, IIRC.

If drugs are involved, it's usually a criminal matter.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:01:23 -0700, Hatunen wrote:

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 17:14:23 +0100, The Reid
wrote:

Following up to Hatunen

Europeans don't have as far to go to get abroad.

that of course doesn't make it untrue.


No, but it raises a seriopus question as to the valdity of the
satement " Europeans do travel abroad more than Americans"

does it? I thought it explained why it might be true but not
unreasonable or surprising.

A great many of
the foreign destinations for Americans don't require a passport
(so far, anyway).

what would be your guess on % of Americans who travel abroad and
who travel abroad beyond Mexico and Canada (a guess, I'm not
interested in a cites war). Are there a lot of countries US
doesn't need passports?

Define "abroad".

other countries

So Mexico and Canada and the Caribbean islands are "abroad", even
for Americans.

Certainly the islands, yes. I guess Americans don't realise what they
are actually doing when they go to Canada or Mexico.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Jordi writes:

The average European family has a home, car, computer, mobile phone,
cable-TV and whatever else the American family has, and has more time
to enjoy it together.

If only that were actually true.

Mixi is right. I don't have cable TV. But he seems to have nothing on the
list except a computer and a cellphone. Not that he would describe himself
as average.

JohnT

Jordi wrote:

However, I was recently in Tecumseh, ON, where crossing to the US
(Detroit) is a matter of crossing a bridge and was told a not
insignificant number of people do conmute from Canada to the US.


Plus, Canadians rank #2 in the number of illegal immigrants to the US

Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On 9 Aug 2006 18:19:42 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:

snip

Some 86% were handed over in Afghanistan and Pakistan after a
widespread campaign in which big financial bounties were offered in
exchange for anyone suspected of links to al-Qaeda and the Taleban.

Good idea.

Offering bounties for suspects is a good idea???

And *extremely* good idea. It's used by law enforcement all over the
world. "Reward for information leading to.........."

And it works.

snip

???? Exactly the same picture. People with links to Al Qaeda and the
Taliban absolutely are covered by my statement above regarding
terrorists and murderers.

Utter rubbish. These people are no more likely to have links with Al
Qaeda and the Taliban than anyone else. They were just rounded up so
the USA could have some spoils.

And your proof of that?

They are being deprived due process only because many of them would be
found to have done nothing.

And your proof of *that*???

Jordi wrote:
Tchiowa wrote:
Jordi wrote:

Wrong. It's the crux of what we're talking about. Allowing the market
to work makes things better over time. Distorting the market like they
do in Europe will eventually have a cost. It already has.

That's a gross oversimplification. Every economy (even the US) is a mix
of free market and government intervention, is the US also distorting
the market?

Do you understand the difference between "intervention" and "control"?
The difference between setting boundaries that can't be crossed and
defining the detail of individual transactions?

So? What % of the annual budget of the average person goes to travel?
And Europeans do travel abroad more than Americans (just take a look at
how many Americans have a passport).

I'm somewhat surprised that you fell into that somewhat simplistic
trap. The primary reason that more Europeans have passports that
Americans is the Balkanization of Europe. In parts of Europe you need a
passport in order to travel more than about an hour in any direct.
Americans can travel the length and breadth of North America without a
passport (inicluding Canada and Mexico). The fact that Europe fought
itself into tiny little legal entities that required people to have
passports to cross the street in some cases isn't something the Euros
should be bragging about.

Schengen has pretty much changed that for a great deal of Europeans.

Yup. In part. But they still have their passports. But my statement
still stands. Europeans travel "abroad" more than Americans because
damn near everything in Europe is "abroad" for Europeans? Brussels to
Amsterdam is a foreign trip. New York to LA isn't. Which is the greater
travel?

As per the rest, it's history, we have managed to keep many cultures
and identities in a relatively small space, and not necessarily as a
tourist show.

And the US has every bit as varied a culture as Europe. The difference
is that there are international boundaries in Europe but not in the US.
Which explains the "passport" and "travel abroad" issues. Which means
the original statement was nonsensical.

So is Japan, and nobody suggests Japanese don't have money to spend
while on holiday.

As compared to Americans? I'm suggesting it.

If everything you care about is pure income, there you have it. Keep it
while you can.

I didn't say that. But we were discussing spending money on vacation.
You seem to be surrendering.

Also, the EU has a more even distribution of income than the US.

Yes. Evenly low.

There are more average Europeans than average Americans, that means
someone is doing things well.

What???????????

The average European is substantially poorer than the average American.
The average European would be considered lower (or lower-middle) class
financially in America. That is "doing something well"???

You are talking two different things. An European transplanted into
America with his European salary would be lower or lower-middle class,
but things down here are different.

The average European family has a home, car, computer, mobile phone,
cable-TV and whatever else the American family has, and has more time
to enjoy it together.

The average American has slightly more than one home (a high percentage
of Americans have 2 homes including a vacation house or condo), more
than 2 cars, 2-3 computers, who knows how many mobile phones, and more
and better TVs.

And we have just about as much time to enjoy it together.

proves that.

You're not following the discussion. When told that Europeans enjoy
more vacation than Americans you replied what's the use if they don't
have money to spend on them.

And if they have less money to spend on average then a higher
percentage will have no money to spend. Simple.

If you are trying to say a significant number of Europeans don't have
money enough to go on vacation you're wrong.

A higher percentage of Europeans than Americans can't afford vacation.

A higher percentage of Europeans than Americans who *can* afford
vacation can't afford a real good vacation because of "limited funds".

The average American does more vacation travel, goes more places, has
more money to spend, does more things while on vacation than the
average European.

Grasping at straws again, you're jumping from one subject to the other.

No, same subject. The vacation policy is hurting the workers.

So you say.

Me and the official unemployment statistics.

You first said giving more holiday is a great way to motivate somehow
implying that European business don't reward efforts.

No, you said that. I said that "rewards" are a great way. That includes
salary *and* vacation.

Then why follow that Euro businesses are not rewarding efforts because
they don't give more holiday? (btw: some do).

And less salary.

Then I replied:
that's false, they get more benefits but especially more pay (the
ultimate reason for which the individual works).

???? Euros get *less* pay.

Again losing track. We are talking about rewarding efforts of current
employees by increasing their pay, how can you come out with that?

Europeans get less pay than Americans on the average. If Euros get a
raise and Americans get a raise the Americans stay ahead.

It's simple: excessive work causes stress but there is no way to
calculate how much is excessive as it depends on every individual and
work position.

Define "excessive". That was the question.

Excessive is easy to define the point is how much is excessive.

OK. I'm waiting for the definition and the point.

Note that most psychiatrists say that people are more stressed now than
they were a century ago. But the average person now works 50% less than
the average person did a century ago. So your linkage is getting lost.

Not really, a century ago most jobs were totally manual and any worker
complaining about excessive workload would be summarily fired and with
no other option but starving or turning to crime.

But was he "stressed". The shrinks say "no".

People are happier with more holiday,

Really? Again, psychiatrists point out that vacations are often very
stressful.

Which ones?

Most. Read the studies. Vacations are times of high family violence due
to stress.

and there is no way to
demonstrate the optimum working time (be it 2, 4 or 6 hours holiday)

Yet you seem to claim that there is a way. You do so by claiming that
the US is somehow harming its workers by not giving them enough
vacation.

Yes, if people are better with more vacation, the less holidays they
receive the worse they are.

Nonsensical argument. If people had 365 days vacation a year but zero
income because of it then they are not better because they have more
vacation.

so we'd better go for the point where the maximum people are happy and
it's still economically viable.

OK. Good point. My point is that the mandatory minimum 4 weeks vacation
is not economically viable. Look at the unemployment figures in Europe.
Part of that is a direct result of mandatory vacation. Ask employers.
They are reluctant to hire new, unproven people because they are
saddled with this cost (plus the difficulty in letting people go
because of other similarly non-competitive laws in Europe).

No, especially in France, the problems in hiring new people is because
it is quite hard to send them off if the worker turns out to be less than okay.

That's certainly part of it. But it's part of the same problem: laws
requiring that workers receive benefits (vacation, job guarantees,
etc.) that are not justified by their performance.

That's why they tried to pass a law introducing a new contract for
youngsters in which the employer could basically send them off for no
reason (and the subsequent riots in a very French fashion).

I'll give you that one. ;-)

History says otherwise. And it's interesting to see your choice of
words. Work "addiction" as if it is something that is negative. I find
work very fulfilling and personally rewarding. Apparently you don't
share that feeling. Maybe it's time you looked for a different line of
work.

I am very happy with my job, it gives me the chance to visit a great
deal of different countries and cultures which also happens to be my
hobby. And it's reasonably well-paid, too.

One thing is working hard and actually liking your position, the other
one is having your job as the center of your life. It must be a
cultural thing.

My job is not the center of my life. But it is very rewarding and
fulfilling. It is the opposite of stressful. While there is a lot of
stress in the job the satisfaction I get from a job well done more than
counters it.

Because working makes up for more than half the time you are awake,

Excuse me? If 30% is spent sleeping then 70% of your time is spent
awake. 20% of the time working is not "more than half) of 70%. That
means that 50% of your time is spend doing something else other than
working or sleeping. 20% is not greater than 50% last time I looked.

I was thinking about weekdays, brain fart for not putting it clearly.

Fair enough.

But even at that, if you count half of the time on weekdays you also
have to consider the 10-12 weekday holidays that an American gets plus
the vacation and you'll see that Americans, like Europeans, spend less
than half their waking time working even when excluding weekends.

Jordi wrote:
mrtravel wrote:
The Reid wrote:

what would be your guess on % of Americans who travel abroad and
who travel abroad beyond Mexico and Canada (a guess, I'm not
interested in a cites war). Are there a lot of countries US
doesn't need passports?

There are few left, but that will soon end as the US Government will
require them for re-entry. The percentage of foreign travelers is lower
because the US is a large country with great diversity.

So is Australia and I recall them having one of the highest % of
passport holders.

Excuse me? Australia is a physically large country but 90% of it is
desert or close to it. Hardly "great diversity".

Dave Frightens Me writes:

If drugs are involved, it's usually a criminal matter.

The prosecution of the crime is a criminal matter, but the seizure of
property is not.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Dave Frightens Me writes:

If drugs are involved, it's usually a criminal matter.

The prosecution of the crime is a criminal matter, but the seizure of
property is not.

That's because property can't commit a crime. But the civil forfeiture
is a result of the criminal conduct. And it all has to be approved by a
judge.

Therefore "due process".