VISA rules when crossing CIS borders

wrote in message roups.com...
Bjorn Olsson wrote:
wrote in message
roups.com...
Bjorn Olsson wrote:

Maybe so. I am not really interested in the rules. I am
interested in
what works well in practice. If I am spending a single day in
Moscow,
I don't find it reasonable to spend half of it on visiting OVIR,
and
I
won't do it if no-one is showing any interest in enforcing this
silly
rule.

The reason why this example works fine in practice is that you
don't
need to register your visa in order to stay there for one day.

Yes. So why do you say that you "would exit Russia from somewhere it
is
reasonable that you can reach in a day trip from the closest town
included in your visa"?

The best way to answer that I can come up with for the moment is to
give you two exsamles.

Let's say you have a 2 weeks visa registered in St Petersburg and
decide to see Moscow. If you have your papers controlled by the police
the first day, you can say that you are there for the day and go back
in the evening. If you are spoending the night there and stay for
another day, I assume you could tell the same story. I say "I assume"
bacuase, as you probably know, you have to show your passport and visa
in order to buy trainticket. I don't think they can/normally will check
what train you arrived by (as you probalby know Russian traintickets
are issued for one spesific train), but I honestly don't know. Anyway,
I think it is sensible to assume that this will work fine. On the other
hand, I is fairly convenient to make a hotel register your
emmigrationcard and get rid of any potential problem.

What does this example have to do with your statement that you "would
exit Russia from somewhere it is reasonable that you can reach in a
day trip from the closest town included in your visa"?

The only reasonable interpretation of that statement, IMHO, is that
you mean that it would be a problem at the border, to exit from a
point that is not reachable within a daytrip from the nearest point
included in you visa.

Again, I have many times exited Russia from Sheremetyevo, while not
having had Moscow included in my visa, and the nearest point included
in my visa being 23 hours of train travel away (in the Urals). It was
absolutely no problem to do this. It has worked every time without
even the slightest indication or hint of any problem whatsoever.

Bjorn

Bjorn Olsson wrote:
wrote in message
roups.com...

What does this example have to do with your statement that you "would
exit Russia from somewhere it is reasonable that you can reach in a
day trip from the closest town included in your visa"?

Everything.

Your example is like the first case, where you only visit one place in
addition to the city registered in your visa. Any time you have your
papers checked, you can tell them you are on a day trip from the place
registered in your passport and therefore don't need to register.
Somewhere you can go by nighttrain, as your example, is fine.

The same does not apply if you have registered your passport in a
second city for a definited period of time that is allready expired.
Then you should be back in the city it was originally registered for,
have your visa registered in a new town or be between trains (or other
types of transportations) back to the town your visa was registered in
the first place. I have been asked to show my traintickets in this kind
of situation. Buttom line is that the best solution is to register, to
avoid this kind of quesstions.


The only reasonable interpretation of that statement, IMHO, is that
you mean that it would be a problem at the border, to exit from a
point that is not reachable within a daytrip from the nearest point
included in you visa.

No, you have simply not understood how it works. Not very strange. It
is complicated... But again, apply the rule of thumb - if in doubt,
register. You can hardly have to many stamps...

Again, I have many times exited Russia from Sheremetyevo, while not
having had Moscow included in my visa, and the nearest point included
in my visa being 23 hours of train travel away (in the Urals). It was
absolutely no problem to do this. It has worked every time without
even the slightest indication or hint of any problem whatsoever.

First, if you haven't been stopped, that means you have no experience
when it comes to whether or not you will be fine. Second, your exsample
will probablyt work out fine, because this is a "type one example". If
you stay in Moscow for three days, it will still seam resonable that
you arrived the same day (ruling out that they insist to see you ticket
or actually check the date your ticket was issued on that is probably
registered on your passportnumber, since you are always asked to show
your passport to buy a trainticket).

If you had stayed and registerd your visa for 3 days in Moscow, then be
stopped on the street in St Petersburg without registration, on the
second (or later) day after your registration in Moscow exprired ("type
2 example"), you would have something to explain. Either you have
stayed in Moscow without registraion, you have moved on to St
Petersburg for more than a daytrip without registering there or both,
in any case it is evident that you have broken the visa registration
rules.

Jan

wrote in message roups.com...
Bjorn Olsson wrote:

The only reasonable interpretation of that statement, IMHO, is that
you mean that it would be a problem at the border, to exit from a
point that is not reachable within a daytrip from the nearest point
included in you visa.

No,

"No"? As in "no, that is not the only reasonable interpretation of the
statement"?

If so, what other reasonable interpretations are there of your
statement that you "would exit Russia from somewhere it is reasonable
that you can reach in a day trip from the closest town included in
your visa"?

Björn

Bjorn Olsson wrote:
wrote in message
roups.com...
Bjorn Olsson wrote:

The only reasonable interpretation of that statement, IMHO, is
that
you mean that it would be a problem at the border, to exit from a
point that is not reachable within a daytrip from the nearest
point
included in you visa.

No,

"No"? As in "no, that is not the only reasonable interpretation of
the
statement"?

If so, what other reasonable interpretations are there of your
statement that you "would exit Russia from somewhere it is reasonable
that you can reach in a day trip from the closest town included in
your visa"?

As long as your visa is indeed registered and and you have your
passport, visa and emigrationcard when you leave the country, you can
not have a problem with the registration in different towns
_on_the_border_. By even suggesting so, you just domonstrate agian that
you do not know the Russian visa legisltion.

The examples I gave you, iluststrates what rules applies when you are
asked to show your papers during your stay in Russia. If you are
stopped in a city where your visa is not registered and the
registration for the last city has expired with more that one day, you
have by very definition vilolated the rules.

Please contact the consulate for more spesific explaination. If you
haven't got it by now, I don't have the time to teach you this.

Jan

wrote in message roups.com...
Bjorn Olsson wrote:
wrote in message
roups.com...
Bjorn Olsson wrote:

The only reasonable interpretation of that statement, IMHO, is
that
you mean that it would be a problem at the border, to exit from a
point that is not reachable within a daytrip from the nearest
point
included in you visa.

No,

"No"? As in "no, that is not the only reasonable interpretation of
the
statement"?

If so, what other reasonable interpretations are there of your
statement that you "would exit Russia from somewhere it is reasonable
that you can reach in a day trip from the closest town included in
your visa"?

As long as your visa is indeed registered and and you have your
passport, visa and emigrationcard when you leave the country, you can
not have a problem with the registration in different towns
_on_the_border_.

In other words, it doesn't matter where you exit.

Thank you for clarifying that your previous statement about where to
exit Russia ("within a day trip from the nearest town included in your
visa") was incorrect.

Thanks again. I have no further questions.

Bjorn

(Bjorn Olsson) wrote in message . com...
wrote in message roups.com...
Bjorn Olsson wrote:
wrote in message
roups.com...
Bjorn Olsson wrote:



As long as your visa is indeed registered and and you have your
passport, visa and emigrationcard when you leave the country, you can
not have a problem with the registration in different towns
_on_the_border_.

In other words, it doesn't matter where you exit.

Thank you for clarifying that your previous statement about where to
exit Russia ("within a day trip from the nearest town included in your
visa") was incorrect.

I have not stated that it cas cause any problems _on_the_border_.
Quite on the contrary I have underlined that the problem is not on the
border (but if you are stopped by the police on the street for a
control of your papers). You really are a slow learner. As you have
quoted the very text where I say it, I can harly belive that you can
come up with such a suggestion.

It is imperative to know though, that you according to the Russian
visa rules are not allowed to stay (more than for a day trip) in
Moscow if your visa is registered in another city (for instance Perm)
and you leave Russia from Moscow airport (and you have a private or
touristvisa). If you are stopped by the police for a control of your
papers _in_Moscow_city_and_not_on_the_border_, that can get you into
trouble. As previously explained this is more likely in some occations
(like case 2 above) than in others (like case 1 above).

Jan

?ystein wrote:

(Bjorn Olsson) wrote in message
. com...
wrote in message
roups.com...
Bjorn Olsson wrote:
wrote in message
roups.com...
Bjorn Olsson wrote:



As long as your visa is indeed registered and and you have your
passport, visa and emigrationcard when you leave the country, you can
not have a problem with the registration in different towns
_on_the_border_.

In other words, it doesn't matter where you exit.

Thank you for clarifying that your previous statement about where to
exit Russia ("within a day trip from the nearest town included in your
visa") was incorrect.

I have not stated that it cas cause any problems _on_the_border_.
Quite on the contrary I have underlined that the problem is not on the
border (but if you are stopped by the police on the street for a
control of your papers). You really are a slow learner. As you have
quoted the very text where I say it, I can harly belive that you can
come up with such a suggestion.

It is imperative to know though, that you according to the Russian
visa rules are not allowed to stay (more than for a day trip) in
Moscow if your visa is registered in another city (for instance Perm)
and you leave Russia from Moscow airport (and you have a private or
touristvisa). If you are stopped by the police for a control of your
papers _in_Moscow_city_and_not_on_the_border_, that can get you into
trouble. As previously explained this is more likely in some occations
(like case 2 above) than in others (like case 1 above).


You and Bjorn up there need to find more salubrious destinations to visit.
Never have I seen a more pointless niggling conversation than this one on
rte...

--
Best
Greg

(?ystein) wrote in message . com...
(Bjorn Olsson) wrote in message . com...
wrote in message roups.com...
Bjorn Olsson wrote:
wrote in message
roups.com...
Bjorn Olsson wrote:



As long as your visa is indeed registered and and you have your
passport, visa and emigrationcard when you leave the country, you can
not have a problem with the registration in different towns
_on_the_border_.

In other words, it doesn't matter where you exit.

Thank you for clarifying that your previous statement about where to
exit Russia ("within a day trip from the nearest town included in your
visa") was incorrect.

I have not stated that it cas cause any problems _on_the_border_.

In other words, your statement about where to *exit* Russia had, in
fact, nothing at all to do with *exiting* Russia.

Bjorn

"Gregory Morrow" gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net wrote in message nk.net...
?ystein wrote:

(Bjorn Olsson) wrote in message
. com...
wrote in message
roups.com...
Bjorn Olsson wrote:
wrote in message
roups.com...
Bjorn Olsson wrote:



As long as your visa is indeed registered and and you have your
passport, visa and emigrationcard when you leave the country, you can
not have a problem with the registration in different towns
_on_the_border_.

In other words, it doesn't matter where you exit.

Thank you for clarifying that your previous statement about where to
exit Russia ("within a day trip from the nearest town included in your
visa") was incorrect.

I have not stated that it cas cause any problems _on_the_border_.
Quite on the contrary I have underlined that the problem is not on the
border (but if you are stopped by the police on the street for a
control of your papers). You really are a slow learner. As you have
quoted the very text where I say it, I can harly belive that you can
come up with such a suggestion.

It is imperative to know though, that you according to the Russian
visa rules are not allowed to stay (more than for a day trip) in
Moscow if your visa is registered in another city (for instance Perm)
and you leave Russia from Moscow airport (and you have a private or
touristvisa). If you are stopped by the police for a control of your
papers _in_Moscow_city_and_not_on_the_border_, that can get you into
trouble. As previously explained this is more likely in some occations
(like case 2 above) than in others (like case 1 above).


You and Bjorn up there need to find more salubrious destinations to visit.
Never have I seen a more pointless niggling conversation than this one on
rte...

Yes, you have.

Bjorn

(Bjorn Olsson) wrote in message . com...
(?ystein) wrote in message . com...
(Bjorn Olsson) wrote in message . com...
wrote in message roups.com...
Bjorn Olsson wrote:
wrote in message
roups.com...
Bjorn Olsson wrote:



As long as your visa is indeed registered and and you have your
passport, visa and emigrationcard when you leave the country, you can
not have a problem with the registration in different towns
_on_the_border_.

In other words, it doesn't matter where you exit.

Thank you for clarifying that your previous statement about where to
exit Russia ("within a day trip from the nearest town included in your
visa") was incorrect.

I have not stated that it cas cause any problems _on_the_border_.

In other words, your statement about where to *exit* Russia had, in
fact, nothing at all to do with *exiting* Russia.

Of course it has. If you want to exit Russia somewhere else than where
you entry the country / somewhere you not heading for within a daytrip
from the town that you are registered in your visa, you (under several
certain circumstances) will have to register you visa (in that
particular town), in order to avoid problems if you have your papers
controled by the police inside Russia (not on the bordercrossing).

Now, will you please do society a favor and shut up?

Jan