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car leasing - diesel vs petrol/gasoline



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 11th, 2005, 06:42 AM
Mike
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Default car leasing - diesel vs petrol/gasoline

We are planning to lease a small car in France, for a 2 month europe
trip. Two people, travelling light.
The question is whether to go diesel, which seems to be popular in Europe.
From some figures, diesel is around 15% cheaper in much of Europe. Is
that right? And looking at renault, a diesel Modus uses 20% less fuel
than a petrol Clio. So total saving, about a third on fuel costs,
which will more than cover the extra costs, and maybe more. And we gain
air-con and cruise control. So the Modus is better than Clio?

But are they powerful enough? You don't need much power for cities
or motorways, but we will be driving in the mountains and country roads.

The Modus diesel has 65 or 80 DIN HP versions. My big australian station
wagon has a 150kW 4L petrol engine, which I think is around 200 HP?
But its heavy and overpowered, so maybe 80 is enough for a small car?


BTW, this french car-leasing is a great scam. You get a new car,
insurance etc, much cheaper than rental. The french car company
avoids GST/VAT and creates a supply of used cars to sell to people
who wouldn't buy new, without cutting their new-car profits much.
The local buyer gets a near-new car at a big discount. Its a pity about
the french taxpayers, but no scheme is perfect ;-)
  #2  
Old March 11th, 2005, 06:59 AM
David Bennetts
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Default


"Mike" wrote in message
...
We are planning to lease a small car in France, for a 2 month europe trip.
Two people, travelling light.
The question is whether to go diesel, which seems to be popular in Europe.
From some figures, diesel is around 15% cheaper in much of Europe. Is
that right? And looking at renault, a diesel Modus uses 20% less fuel than
a petrol Clio. So total saving, about a third on fuel costs,
which will more than cover the extra costs, and maybe more. And we gain
air-con and cruise control. So the Modus is better than Clio?


Your fuel costs will be less with diesel in France - see
http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/fuel/motfue001.html I hired my first
diesel car last year in Britain, and although diesel costs more there than
petrol, the economy of diesel meant overall fuel costs were less.

But are they powerful enough? You don't need much power for cities
or motorways, but we will be driving in the mountains and country roads.


If you're worried about performance, you probably don't need the aircon much
of the time in the mountains, so turn it off for a bit more power. You
should find the power/weight ratio acceptable.

The Modus diesel has 65 or 80 DIN HP versions. My big australian station
wagon has a 150kW 4L petrol engine, which I think is around 200 HP?
But its heavy and overpowered, so maybe 80 is enough for a small car?


Yes. You mightn't get startling performance, but it should be adequate. I
drive a smaller car here in Australia (1.8 litre) and find I can keep up
with the 4 litre Holdens and Falcons anytime.

BTW, this french car-leasing is a great scam. You get a new car, insurance
etc, much cheaper than rental. The french car company
avoids GST/VAT and creates a supply of used cars to sell to people
who wouldn't buy new, without cutting their new-car profits much.
The local buyer gets a near-new car at a big discount. Its a pity about
the french taxpayers, but no scheme is perfect ;-)


I've heard other Australians waxing lyrical about the scheme, so use it!

Regards

David Bennetts
Australia


  #3  
Old March 11th, 2005, 07:37 AM
Alan S
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Default

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 16:59:25 +1100, "David Bennetts"
wrote:

|
|"Mike" wrote in message
...
| We are planning to lease a small car in France, for a 2 month europe trip.
| Two people, travelling light.
| The question is whether to go diesel, which seems to be popular in Europe.
| From some figures, diesel is around 15% cheaper in much of Europe. Is
| that right? And looking at renault, a diesel Modus uses 20% less fuel than
| a petrol Clio. So total saving, about a third on fuel costs,
| which will more than cover the extra costs, and maybe more. And we gain
| air-con and cruise control. So the Modus is better than Clio?
|
|Your fuel costs will be less with diesel in France - see
|http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/fuel/motfue001.html I hired my first
|diesel car last year in Britain, and although diesel costs more there than
|petrol, the economy of diesel meant overall fuel costs were less.
|
| But are they powerful enough? You don't need much power for cities
| or motorways, but we will be driving in the mountains and country roads.
|
|If you're worried about performance, you probably don't need the aircon much
|of the time in the mountains, so turn it off for a bit more power. You
|should find the power/weight ratio acceptable.
|
| The Modus diesel has 65 or 80 DIN HP versions. My big australian station
| wagon has a 150kW 4L petrol engine, which I think is around 200 HP?
| But its heavy and overpowered, so maybe 80 is enough for a small car?
|
|Yes. You mightn't get startling performance, but it should be adequate. I
|drive a smaller car here in Australia (1.8 litre) and find I can keep up
|with the 4 litre Holdens and Falcons anytime.
|
| BTW, this french car-leasing is a great scam. You get a new car, insurance
| etc, much cheaper than rental. The french car company
| avoids GST/VAT and creates a supply of used cars to sell to people
| who wouldn't buy new, without cutting their new-car profits much.
| The local buyer gets a near-new car at a big discount. Its a pity about
| the french taxpayers, but no scheme is perfect ;-)
|
|I've heard other Australians waxing lyrical about the scheme, so use it!
|
|Regards
|
|David Bennetts
|Australia
|

I suspect the Modus is actually the same as the 1.5 turbo diesel Clio
I had in '03 - someone will correct me there. It averaged 20 km to the
litre - incredible mileage. We did 11000km from Nice-CDG via most of
western Europe, including the back alpine roads through the
Italian/Austrian border and the various alpine back roads from
Zurich-Lucerne-Interlaken-Geneva etc.

It was a manual (took a while to stop grabbing the door handle instead
of the gearshift:-) and had as much power as you'll ever need. The
size you require will depend on number of pax and luggage more than
the engine.

Just make sure you get all those tax stickers as you cross borders.


Cheers, Alan
  #4  
Old March 11th, 2005, 11:14 AM
Gerrit 't Hart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Mike" wrote in message
...
We are planning to lease a small car in France, for a 2 month europe
trip. Two people, travelling light.
The question is whether to go diesel, which seems to be popular in Europe.
From some figures, diesel is around 15% cheaper in much of Europe. Is
that right? And looking at renault, a diesel Modus uses 20% less fuel
than a petrol Clio. So total saving, about a third on fuel costs,
which will more than cover the extra costs, and maybe more. And we gain
air-con and cruise control. So the Modus is better than Clio?

But are they powerful enough? You don't need much power for cities
or motorways, but we will be driving in the mountains and country roads.

The Modus diesel has 65 or 80 DIN HP versions. My big australian station
wagon has a 150kW 4L petrol engine, which I think is around 200 HP?
But its heavy and overpowered, so maybe 80 is enough for a small car?



We leased a Clio diesel with Air last year and drove 19000 km through
western Europe between April and July.
I found the Clio had enough power for freeway (motorway) use and in the
mountains there were no problems.
We had a manual and the Air was climate control.
As far as internal space was concerned I would say that it was tight. I
would welcome the new Modus as it has a bit more space.
Depending on the cost of the Modus compared to the Clio though the
difference should not be too great or I would again go for the Clio as it
was not that small.
And it runs on the smell of an oily rag. Got more than 900 km for a full
tank!

Gerrit - Oz


  #5  
Old March 12th, 2005, 04:36 AM
Mark Fagan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Since European cars are made for driving under their conditions, you
shouldn't have any problem. We rented a diesel on our last trip and it
performed excellently and the lower cost didn't hurt.

"Mike" wrote in message
...
We are planning to lease a small car in France, for a 2 month europe trip.
Two people, travelling light.
The question is whether to go diesel, which seems to be popular in Europe.
From some figures, diesel is around 15% cheaper in much of Europe. Is
that right? And looking at renault, a diesel Modus uses 20% less fuel than
a petrol Clio. So total saving, about a third on fuel costs,
which will more than cover the extra costs, and maybe more. And we gain
air-con and cruise control. So the Modus is better than Clio?

But are they powerful enough? You don't need much power for cities
or motorways, but we will be driving in the mountains and country roads.

The Modus diesel has 65 or 80 DIN HP versions. My big australian station
wagon has a 150kW 4L petrol engine, which I think is around 200 HP?
But its heavy and overpowered, so maybe 80 is enough for a small car?


BTW, this french car-leasing is a great scam. You get a new car, insurance
etc, much cheaper than rental. The french car company
avoids GST/VAT and creates a supply of used cars to sell to people
who wouldn't buy new, without cutting their new-car profits much.
The local buyer gets a near-new car at a big discount. Its a pity about
the french taxpayers, but no scheme is perfect ;-)



  #6  
Old March 14th, 2005, 11:03 AM
Mike
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Posts: n/a
Default

Alan S wrote:

I suspect the Modus is actually the same as the 1.5 turbo diesel Clio
I had in '03 - someone will correct me there.


The Modus seems to be a variant of the Clio. A "mini-MPV".
Its a newer model.

http://images.google.com.au/images?q=renault+modus

size you require will depend on number of pax and luggage more than
the engine.


Two people, and the less luggage she can take, the better :-)

Just make sure you get all those tax stickers as you cross borders.


We will avoid Switzerland.
In Austria, will we need to take the interstate/autobahn/whatever,
or can you get by on quieter, more scenic highways?
Tentative plan is to enter over the Bremer pass from Italy, and exit
Vienna-Prague.

If in doubt, the 10-day motorway pass isn't terribly expensive anyway.
  #7  
Old March 14th, 2005, 11:14 AM
Mike
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Posts: n/a
Default

Gerrit 't Hart wrote:

We leased a Clio diesel with Air last year and drove 19000 km through
western Europe between April and July.

....
We had a manual and the Air was climate control.


I'm leaning to the slower Modus, sans-aircon now, as the price
difference is significant. How neccessary is the aircon April-July?
Here in Perth, I could do without it, but I'd hate to drive in a Sydney
summer without aircon.

And it runs on the smell of an oily rag. Got more than 900 km for a full
tank!


Heh, my 1600kg Falcon does 900km/tank in the country. Bigger tank though.

Gerrit - Oz


thanks for the helpful reply.
  #8  
Old March 14th, 2005, 12:41 PM
Alan S
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Default

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:03:22 +0800, Mike
wrote:

|Alan S wrote:
|
| I suspect the Modus is actually the same as the 1.5 turbo diesel Clio
| I had in '03 - someone will correct me there.
|
|The Modus seems to be a variant of the Clio. A "mini-MPV".
|Its a newer model.
|
|http://images.google.com.au/images?q=renault+modus
|
| size you require will depend on number of pax and luggage more than
| the engine.
|
|Two people, and the less luggage she can take, the better :-)
|
| Just make sure you get all those tax stickers as you cross borders.
|
|We will avoid Switzerland.
|In Austria, will we need to take the interstate/autobahn/whatever,
|or can you get by on quieter, more scenic highways?
|Tentative plan is to enter over the Bremer pass from Italy, and exit
|Vienna-Prague.
|
|If in doubt, the 10-day motorway pass isn't terribly expensive anyway.

I suspect it would be simpler just to get the sticker in Austria. One
reason that we were booked is that I used back roads and came in
through the mountains in the rain (Arnoldstein??) and didn't see any
signs when we joined the major road after Grossnitz. After we were
booked we looked for signs - and still didn't see them. The
"vignette"is only about ten euros but the fine was 120.

I wandered around on all types of roads in Europe, all good quality
but some were very narrow or steep - or both, basically taking my time
and stopping for picnics for lunch or occasional bars/cafes. Another
tip on Austria, specifically Vienna. The metre of footpath nearest the
kerb is reserved for cyclists, who whiz by at high speed. We heard
some words in German we didn't need to translate when we didn't look
before crossing that strip.

I wouldn't avoid Switzerland just because of the toll. One tip - we
had a choice of paying at the border in Euros or Swiss Francs. It was
far cheaper (5 or 6 euros) to buy in francs when I calculated the
exchange rate.


Cheers, Alan, Australia
  #9  
Old March 16th, 2005, 02:07 PM
Gerrit 't Hart
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Mike" wrote in message
...
Gerrit 't Hart wrote:

We leased a Clio diesel with Air last year and drove 19000 km through
western Europe between April and July.

...
We had a manual and the Air was climate control.


I'm leaning to the slower Modus, sans-aircon now, as the price
difference is significant. How neccessary is the aircon April-July?
Here in Perth, I could do without it, but I'd hate to drive in a Sydney
summer without aircon.

And it runs on the smell of an oily rag. Got more than 900 km for a full
tank!


Heh, my 1600kg Falcon does 900km/tank in the country. Bigger tank though.

Gerrit - Oz


thanks for the helpful reply.


Sorry about lateness in replying. Just been to Albany for the weekend. Came
back an hour ago in our 3.8L Commodore SW. :-)

Last summer in Holland was not a very hot one but we used the air just about
all the time. Takes a lot of humidity out of the air. If its there you use
it hey?!
If you intend to go towards the south of Europe at all I would definitely
not go without an airconditioner. Northern parts are normally OK.
On the Renault website the Modus performance figures are very similar to the
Clio. As I said before if the difference is not extreme I would favour the
Modus.

Gerrit - Armadale


 




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