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At least 4 jets strand Conn. passengers for hours
At least 4 jets strand Conn. passengers for hours
APBy CANDICE CHOI - AP Business Writer | AP – 5 hrs ago NEW YORK (AP) — It was a passengers' nightmare at Bradley International Airport near Hartford, Conn., this weekend. Passengers on at least three JetBlue planes and one American Airline plane say they were stranded on the tarmac for seven hours or more after being diverted from New York-area airports on Saturday. The ordeal continued after they were let off and had to spend the night on cots and chairs in terminals. A passenger on one of the diverted JetBlue planes says the crew ran out of snacks and bottled water for the last few hours of the delay. "The toilets were backed up. When you flushed, nothing would happen," said Andrew Carter, a reporter for the Sun Sentinel of Florida, who was traveling to cover the Miami Dolphins game against the New York Giants. His plane took off from Fort Lauderdale for Newark Liberty International Airport at around 9 a.m. After being diverted to Hartford, the plane sat on the tarmac between around 1:30 p.m. and 9 p.m., he said. A representative for Bradley International wasn't available to comment on the scope of the tarmac delays at the airport. A JetBlue spokeswoman, Victoria Lucia, confirmed in an emailed statement that six of its planes, carrying a total of about 700 passengers, were diverted to Hartford as a result of a "confluence of events" including equipment failures at Newark and New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport that prevented planes from landing in low visibility. She declined to specify how long the planes sat on the tarmac at Bradley, but noted that 17 other flights with different carriers were also diverted to airport. Once the planes landed at Bradley, Lucia said that intermittent power outages at the airport made refueling and deplaning difficult. Kate Hanni, executive editor for FlyersRights.org, said she got calls and emails from passengers and worried family members regarding at least four flights that were stranded on the tarmac for up to 10 hours. Brent Stanley and his wife were on one of those planes, an American Airlines flight that had originally been headed to JFK after taking off from Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris. After being diverted and landing in Hartford at 2:30 p.m., Stanley said passengers were given various reasons for being held on the tarmac, including the need to refuel and de-ice and the airport's limited capacity for handling international flights. He and his wife were eager to get back home to their two young sons in Lake Zurich, Ill. But they realized they didn't have it as bad as the parents who had infants on the plane. "There was a lady in front of us with an 18-month-old daughter," Stanley said. "Another woman came by to borrow diapers because we couldn't get to our luggage." After spending the night at the airport, Stanley was lucky to find two seats Sunday on an afternoon flight home to Chicago. But the headache isn't over yet; his luggage was headed to JFK because the Hartford airport crew wasn't able to handle international luggage, he said. An American Airlines spokesman, Ed Martelle, said the passengers weren't allowed off the plane by customs at the airport. Martelle did not know the exact number of American planes that were diverted to Bradley or how long they sat on the tarmac. Matt Shellenberger, who was on a JetBlue flight from Boston to JFK, said his plane was diverted to Bradley International and sat on the tarmac for seven hours. The crew picked up trash regularly and handed out water and snacks and "everyone held their cool," he said. But his frustrations grew with each status update; the reasons for the delay kept changing as the hours passed. Early on, passengers were told that the plane was just being refueled and would fly out soon, Shellenberger said. Then they were told it was being de-iced. Then there was an emergency on another plane. "We were told we were the third plane in line to get to the gate when we landed," he said. "Then we stayed on the plane for seven hours." Carter of the Sun Sentinel, who was on another JetBlue flight, reported a similar sequence of updates. The saga continued long after passengers were let off the plane. The power outages from storms throughout Connecticut made booking hotel rooms difficult. As a result, many passengers just slept at the airport, Carter and Shellenberger said in separate interviews. When they awoke, hundreds of passengers had to wait in line for hours just to figure out which flight they'd be on. "That was most disappointing part," Carter said. "It seemed like there was no plan when we got off the plane." In the morning, Carter said he and several other passengers rented a van to drive to New Jersey rather than wait for the afternoon flight JetBlue had scheduled to Newark. It's not the first time JetBlue has had problems with tarmac delays. The New York-based airline also made headlines in 2007 when snow and ice storms stranded its planes for nearly 11 hours at New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport. Such high-profile delays helped prompt a regulation last year that fines airlines for holding domestic flights on the tarmac for more than three hours. This year, the rule was extended to apply to international flights that are held on the tarmac for more than four hours. The Department of Transportation often doesn't enforce the fines to their full extent unless delays are extreme, however. Passengers also do not get a cut of the fines. Low-cost carriers are more prone to tarmac delays because letting passengers off planes can cost an airline a lot of money, said Hanni of FlyersRights.org. If a plane is diverted because of a reason within the airline's control, such as a mechanical failure, ticket contracts usually state that passengers will be reimbursed for hotels, food and transportation. That means airlines do everything in their power to keep passengers on board in hope that the plane will be able to take off again. JetBlue said that passengers who were diverted to Bradley International would be reimbursed for their fares and hotel expenses. A representative for the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey, which oversees Newark and JFK airports, could not immediately say how many total flights were diverted to other airports because of equipment failures. http://news.yahoo.com/least-4-jets-s...234334714.html |
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At least 4 jets strand Conn. passengers for hours
Ablang wrote:
At least 4 jets strand Conn. passengers for hours The story now reads that 6 Jetblue planes were diverted to Hartford, carrying a total of about 700 pax. 17 planes from other carriers were also diverted there, but no reports if they were de-planed or not. Jetblue suffered major PR dammage back in 2007 when they stranded pax on a plane for 11 hours. The media is reporting that it costs carriers a lot of money to de-plane pax at airports where they don't normally operate from. Aside from any off-airport costs (ie hotel rooms) I'd like to know just what those costs are. You would think that your constitutional rights are being violated by being held captive in a plane like that. The PAX should have called the police and claimed that they were being held captive inside a confined space against their will at Bradley. ========= JetBlue Flight Pilot Pleaded for Help During Tarmac Ordeal http://www.670kboi.com/rssItem.asp?f...temid=29747249 The pilot of a JetBlue plane stuck on the tarmac for seven hours full of increasingly angry and frustrated passengers pleaded for assistance from airport officials, telling them he "can't seem to get any help from our own company." "I got a problem here on the airplane, I'm gonna need to have the cops on board," the pilot said, according to cockpit recordings posted onLiveATC.net. "There's a cop car sitting in front of me right here right now. I need some air stairs brought over here and the cops brought on board the airplane. "Look, you know we can't seem to get any help from our own company, I apologize for this, but is there any way you can get a tug and a tow bar out here to us and get us towed somewhere to a gate or something," he said. "I don't care. Take us anywhere." ABC News has learned that the Department of Transportation's Aviation Consumer Protection division is investigating the delay involving JetBlue Flight 504, as well as a couple of other flights, that occurred Saturday. If the government determines any airline violated the tarmac delay rule, that carrier could be fined as much as $27,500 per passenger. =========== Every time I hear about this, I have to wonder why pilots don't have more power or common sense during contract negotiations to have iron-clad agreements in their contract that they can force their carrier or the airport they land at to de-plane passengers at their request. Pilots seem to have a lot of authority over their plane and how they operate and fly it, but this fundamental issue of being demoted to hostage status on their own plane during events like this and why they tolerate this state of affairs is a mystery. And why the airport refused a direct request by the pilot to tow the plane to a gate and de-plane the passengers needs to be looked into. Obviously all the layers of this rotting onion weren't examined and taken into account when the gov't passed the tarmac-delay rule. |
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At least 4 jets strand Conn. passengers for hours
In article , Fly Guy wrote:
You would think that your constitutional rights are being violated by being held captive in a plane like that. The PAX should have called the police and claimed that they were being held captive inside a confined space against their will at Bradley. Constitutional rights only impact on governmental actions, not the actions of a private entity. The best you might be able to do might be kidnapping or something similar because you were held against your will, but I wouldn't want to press it. Every time I hear about this, I have to wonder why pilots don't have more power or common sense during contract negotiations to have iron-clad agreements in their contract that they can force their carrier or the airport they land at to de-plane passengers at their request. The contract language with the airline would have absolutely no impact on the airport. And why the airport refused a direct request by the pilot to tow the plane to a gate and de-plane the passengers needs to be looked into. My guess would be gates were overwhelmed by 23 (17 others and 6 Jet Blue) unexpected "guests". Especially since, IIRC, they were having operational problems of their own during the event. Obviously all the layers of this rotting onion weren't examined and taken into account when the gov't passed the tarmac-delay rule. Yeah, like weather caused diversions and (at least in some cases) no nearby customs and immigrations people. -- People thought cybersex was a safe alternative, until patients started presenting with sexually acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz |
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At least 4 jets strand Conn. passengers for hours
Kurt Ullman wrote:
You would think that your constitutional rights are being violated Constitutional rights only impact on governmental actions, No, I think constitutional rights apply to the private sector as well. I have to wonder why pilots don't have agreements in their contract that they can force their carrier or the airport they land at to de-plane passengers at their request. The contract language with the airline would have absolutely no impact on the airport. That may be true, but in this case the pilot was seeking authority with Jetblue management for some sort of go-ahead to park the plane at a gate (or even for air-stairs). Pilots could be granted that decision-making status on their own in these situations under a better contract. It's not clear what the airport was looking for or asking of Jetblue (or any other non-local carrier) to allow the passengers to de-plane. Since they ultimately did de-plane at 9:30 pm, this 7 hours of being stuck on the plane was an unnecessary hardship for the crew and pax. It seems what is missing in this whole puzzle is federal rules that obligate an airport to off-load the pax of an "irregular" plane under the request of the pilot. Whether or not there's an open gate is irrelavent. There are always air-stairs. And you can always move an empty plane out of the way to accomodate a full one that wants to de-plane. Given that most (if not all) airports are federally funded (sometimes to a ridiculous extent given their passenger demographics and load) the fed gov't and FAA has big stick it can swing here. Bag handling isin't even a complication. You simply don't off-load any checked bags under these conditions. You simply off-load the pax and tell them that if they want to continue by some other means to their destination, they can, but their bags will be off-loaded at their originally-ticketed airport when conditions permit. Any pax that want to hang around the airport and re-board the plane when it's ready to fly to it's originally-ticketed destination can certainly do so. This ought to be the way it works for domestic travel. I agree there are other complications for internationally-arriving passengers but I don't think that's the case here (does Jetblue fly internationally?) and it's not necessary to impliment a simultaneous solution to both cases (domestic and international). The domestic case has fewer complications and can be addressed separately. |
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At least 4 jets strand Conn. passengers for hours
On 10/31/2011 11:38 AM, Fly Guy wrote:
does Jetblue fly internationally? It has 19 international destinations. |
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At least 4 jets strand Conn. passengers for hours
In article , Fly Guy wrote:
The contract language with the airline would have absolutely no impact on the airport. That may be true, but in this case the pilot was seeking authority with Jetblue management for some sort of go-ahead to park the plane at a gate (or even for air-stairs). Pilots could be granted that decision-making status on their own in these situations under a better contract. We haven't seen anything that indicates JB did not already contact the airport and find out that nothing was available and just did not get back in touch with the pilot. (Or that they did indeed ignore him). It's not clear what the airport was looking for or asking of Jetblue (or any other non-local carrier) to allow the passengers to de-plane. Since they ultimately did de-plane at 9:30 pm, this 7 hours of being stuck on the plane was an unnecessary hardship for the crew and pax. Pretty much my point at this time. We don't know if JB was turned down, wasn't able to get in touch with the needed people at the airport (who were having their own problems with weather, etc.), even tried to get in touch with the airport, or what happened. It seems what is missing in this whole puzzle is federal rules that obligate an airport to off-load the pax of an "irregular" plane under the request of the pilot. Whether or not there's an open gate is irrelavent. There are always air-stairs. And you can always move an empty plane out of the way to accomodate a full one that wants to de-plane. Again, that is most likely subject to availability of crews to bring the stairs around, was there any place in the overcrowded airport to move the planes that did not violate other FAA rules? I can't see anyone deplaning a group of passengers and then having them troop across the tarmac in a snow storm with equipment and other planes running around. Bag handling isin't even a complication. You simply don't off-load any checked bags under these conditions. You simply off-load the pax and tell them that if they want to continue by some other means to their destination, they can, but their bags will be off-loaded at their originally-ticketed airport when conditions permit. Any pax that want to hang around the airport and re-board the plane when it's ready to fly to it's originally-ticketed destination can certainly do so. Probably right. -- People thought cybersex was a safe alternative, until patients started presenting with sexually acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz |
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At least 4 jets strand Conn. passengers for hours
In message someone claiming to be Fly Guy
typed: Kurt Ullman wrote: You would think that your constitutional rights are being violated Constitutional rights only impact on governmental actions, No, I think constitutional rights apply to the private sector as well. You should read up on that. (Hint, it's governmental action only.) -- It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it. |
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At least 4 jets strand Conn. passengers for hours
DevilsPGD wrote:
Constitutional rights only impact on governmental actions, No, I think constitutional rights apply to the private sector as well. You should read up on that. (Hint, it's governmental action only.) Can an airline have a policy where blacks are seated at the back of a plane? Regardless of the economic or PR impact such a policy may have, can they legally have such a policy? |
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At least 4 jets strand Conn. passengers for hours
On 10/31/2011 5:18 PM, Fly Guy wrote:
DevilsPGD wrote: Constitutional rights only impact on governmental actions, No, I think constitutional rights apply to the private sector as well. You should read up on that. (Hint, it's governmental action only.) Can an airline have a policy where blacks are seated at the back of a plane? A law passed by Congress and signed by the President prohibits that. |
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At least 4 jets strand Conn. passengers for hours
In article , Fly Guy wrote:
DevilsPGD wrote: Constitutional rights only impact on governmental actions, No, I think constitutional rights apply to the private sector as well. You should read up on that. (Hint, it's governmental action only.) Can an airline have a policy where blacks are seated at the back of a plane? That is written law, not constitutional. -- People thought cybersex was a safe alternative, until patients started presenting with sexually acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz |
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