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Cuba Travel Ban
"mrraveltay" wrote in message m...
Speedy Gonzalez wrote: Becuase I was not legally required to report it, thats why. If you do not use a US passport to go there, you are not required to report it. This is another quirk in the law that allows dual nationals to get away with evading the law. When I travelled to North Korea in early 2001, using my passport No, there is no such "quirk" in the law regrading North Korea or Cuba. It doesn't matter what passport you use to get to Cuba, if you are a US Citizen OR US Permanent Resident, you fall under the law. Perhaps you can explain how the law has a "quirk" regarding dual nationals, but restricts non US citzens who are US permanent residents. There is a difference. I do not LIVE in the USA, so I am not subject to those restrictions. Also, one Australian court ruling, in 2002 also makes it legal. The Australian High Court ruled that Australian credit cards are subject to Australian law. This means that when I go to Cuba, I can charge it on my Australian-issued Visa card, and not be in violation of the law. This had to do with one Austraian suing an American company for an article that is not libelous under US law, but IS libelous under Australian law. There were only 17 actualy subscribers to the Barrons site living in Australia, but 400 subscriptions charged to Australian cards. The court said, in fact that Australian issued credit cards come under Australian law, and no other. Basically to High Court of Australia opened up a loophole for any USA citizens living in Oz, dual or not, to travel to Cuba. If the trip is charged to an Australian credit card, it is not subject to any U.S. travel restrictions. I use an online travel service in Germany that has pages in English. Amadeus, being headquartered in Germany, is not subject to U.S. laws. They can sell travel to Cuba, or anywhere else, to anyone they wish, and are not subject to U.S. laws. A travel agency in Erding, Germany is not subject to U.S. laws. Becuase I am paying a German travel agency, I am not violating U.S. laws when I do so. For example, I have to go to Cuba next week for a few days on assignment. I purchased all my travel thorugh Amadeus, and they took care of everything. My air, hotel, and rental car were all paid for through Amadeus. Since they are a GERMAN company, they are only subject to GERMAN laws. It is not illegal for Amadeus to sell me trips to Cuba, as they are not subject to U.S. laws. Because air, hotel, and car rental are paid for before I even arrive, those are not subject to U.S. laws, and I paid Amadeus, and not any entity in Cuba directly. I charge it to my Australian-issued Visa card, and they Amadeus forwards that money to the appropriate entities in Cuba. As for paying for food, when I stop in Guatemala, and get cash from a cash machine there, before proceeding onward to Cuba. Because I will be paying for meals and any other cash expenses in Guatemalan quetzals, that will not be subject to the travel restrictions either, as the United States Treasury has no jurisdiction of the use of Guatemalan currency obtained with via an Australian credit card. Because my air, hotel, and rental car were paid for through a GERMAN company, it is subject to GERMAN laws, and Germany does not have any restrictions on travel to Cuba. What kind of airline is Taca? I had to take what was available, and my usual LAX-MBJ-HAV route had no availability, and I have to go by way of Guatemala City. I have never heard of Taca airlines before. Has anybody ever flown on this airline? |
#2
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Cuba Travel Ban
In article ,
Speedy Gonzalez wrote: It doesn't matter what passport you use to get to Cuba, if you are a US Citizen OR US Permanent Resident, you fall under the law. Perhaps you can explain how the law has a "quirk" regarding dual nationals, but restricts non US citzens who are US permanent residents. There is a difference. I do not LIVE in the USA, so I am not subject to those restrictions. Nonsense. These restrictions apply to all US citizens regardless of where they live. Here is the exact quote from the relevant OFAC regulation: ``The Regulations affect all U.S. citizens and permanent residents wherever they are located'' Do you understand the ``wherever they are located'' part? Also, one Australian court ruling, in 2002 also makes it legal. No Australian court has the power to invalidate US laws as applied to US citizens. This means that when I go to Cuba, I can charge it on my Australian-issued Visa card, and not be in violation of the law. False. If you spend money on travel to Cuba without an OFAC license, you are violating US law regardless of the currency or credit card you use. If the trip is charged to an Australian credit card, it is not subject to any U.S. travel restrictions. False. All trips by US citizens and permanent residents are subject to U.S. travel restrictions. I use an online travel service in Germany that has pages in English. Amadeus, being headquartered in Germany, is not subject to U.S. laws. They can sell travel to Cuba, or anywhere else, to anyone they wish, and are not subject to U.S. laws. They are not subject to U.S. laws, but *you* are. As long as you keep your US citizenship, you are violatinng the law every time you spend money on travel to Cuba, even if you use a German, Australian or Martian travel agency. Becuase I am paying a German travel agency, I am not violating U.S. laws when I do so. Once again: it does not matter which travel agent, currency or credit card you use, where they are located, or where you live. The U.S. law prohibits *you* as a U.S. citizen from spending money on travel to Cuba without an OFAC license in *any* currency, via *any* travel agent, in *any* country. My air, hotel, and rental car were all paid for through Amadeus. Since they are a GERMAN company, they are only subject to GERMAN laws. It is not illegal for Amadeus to sell me trips to Cuba, as they are not subject to U.S. laws. It is not illegal for Amadeus to sell, but it is illegal for you to buy. Had you not been a US citizen, you could have bought trips to Cuba with impunity. As long as keep your US citizenship, you are committing a crime. Because I will be paying for meals and any other cash expenses in Guatemalan quetzals, that will not be subject to the travel restrictions either, as the United States Treasury has no jurisdiction of the use of Guatemalan currency obtained with via an Australian credit card. Who told you this nonsense? The U.S. Treasury has jurisdiction over financial transactions of all U.S. citizens (including yourself) even if they are done via Guatemalan currency and Australian credit cards. Because my air, hotel, and rental car were paid for through a GERMAN company, it is subject to GERMAN laws, and Germany does not have any restrictions on travel to Cuba. Nonsense. They are subject to both German (because the seller is located in Germany) and U.S. (because the buyer is a U.S. citizen) laws, and the U.S. law in question prohibits you from making financial transactions related to travel to Cuba without a license. |
#3
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Cuba Travel Ban
Speedy Gonzalez wrote:
The court said, in fact that Australian issued credit cards come under Australian law, and no other. Basically to High Court of Australia opened up a loophole for any USA citizens living in Oz, dual or not, to travel to Cuba. If the trip is charged to an Australian credit card, it is not subject to any U.S. travel restrictions. How can the High Court of Australia open up a loophole regarding US Law. It is a US law and NOT subject to the legal interpretation of an Australian court. |
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Cuba Travel Ban
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#5
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Cuba Travel Ban
"Alex Leed" wrote in message ...
(Vitaly Shmatikov) wrote: In article , Speedy Gonzalez wrote: There is a difference. I do not LIVE in the USA, so I am not subject to those restrictions. Nonsense. [rest of bull**** deleted] You must realize by now that you're simply being trolled. Speedy Gonzalez AKA Screwey Squirrel AKA Joe Gunchey AKA etc. is Charles Newman and has beening posting figure skating and other kinds of trolls for at least a decade. See for yourself on his 'home' newsgroup, alt.skate.figure. I AM *NOT* CHUCKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! Looks like one of the IDIOTS who like to flame me have found me here. I am NOT Charles Newman, "Chuckie", "Chuckster", or any other nicknames they like to call me. I live in AUSTRALIA, and I travel and write for an E-zine that is based in AUSTRALIA. Dont believe these morons who say I am Chuckie. They have been chasing me all over the Net for YEARS. How they found me here, I will NEVER know. My E-zine sends me all over the world covering figure skating, among other things. In fact, after I go to Cuba, I will be heading to Jamaica to cover the North American figure skating championships. My E-zine, the Midnight Demon, covers a wide variety of topics, we cover sports where Australians compete. We cover political topics. I am an ExPERT on Internet censorship, and how to evade it. I am an expert on how to evade having your activities detected. One again, I AM *NOT* CHUCKIE!!!!!!!!!!!! Got it? Good -- Alex |
#6
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Cuba Travel ban
"mrraveltay" wrote in message m...
Speedy Gonzalez wrote: The court said, in fact that Australian issued credit cards come under Australian law, and no other. Basically to High Court of Australia opened up a loophole for any USA citizens living in Oz, dual or not, to travel to Cuba. If the trip is charged to an Australian credit card, it is not subject to any U.S. travel restrictions. How can the High Court of Australia open up a loophole regarding US Law. It is a US law and NOT subject to the legal interpretation of an Australian court. Because the High Court ruled that Australian-issued credit cards fall under Australian jurisdiction and no other. This effectively legalises travel to Cuba for U.S./Australia dual nationals who live in Australia. Among other things, this ruling also has the effect that a U.S. court cannot subpoena any tranaction information from the credit cards company. This means that the U.S. government would be unable to gather any evidence to even ATTEMPT to enforce any travel restrictions. So by using Australian-issued credit cards, the High Court effectively makes it legal, because they effectively shut out other jurisdictions. They said that Australian issued cedit cards fall under Australian jurisdiction and no other. The Court has effectively said that no other country has jurisdiction over transactions made on Australian-issued credit cards. Australian credit cards are subject to Australian jurisdiction and no other. The Australian High Court hath spoken. It is this ruling that has the effect in invalidating U.S. law on anything charged to an Australian credit card. |
#7
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Cuba Travel Ban
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 03:48:00 +0000, mrraveltay wrote:
Speedy Gonzalez wrote: The court said, in fact that Australian issued credit cards come under Australian law, and no other. Basically to High Court of Australia opened up a loophole for any USA citizens living in Oz, dual or not, to travel to Cuba. If the trip is charged to an Australian credit card, it is not subject to any U.S. travel restrictions. How can the High Court of Australia open up a loophole regarding US Law. It is a US law and NOT subject to the legal interpretation of an Australian court. How can the US Supreme Court close up a loophole regarding Australian law. Etc. See my point? When there is a conflict, what do you do? Suicide perhaps? |
#8
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Cuba Travel Ban
In article ,
devil wrote: How can the High Court of Australia open up a loophole regarding US Law. It is a US law and NOT subject to the legal interpretation of an Australian court. How can the US Supreme Court close up a loophole regarding Australian law. You are missing the point, as usual. The US Supreme Court cannot and does not close any loopholes regarding Australian law. US courts only interpret US laws, which the original poster must obey by virtue of his US citizenship - regardless of his other citizenships, opinions of Australian courts, his use of Guatemalan currency, etc. See my point? When there is a conflict, what do you do? Suicide perhaps? You obey both Australian and US laws. If you don't wish to obey US laws, you give up your US citizenship and stay out of the US. |
#9
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Cuba Travel ban
How can the High Court of Australia open up a loophole regarding US Law. It is a US law and NOT subject to the legal interpretation of an Australian court. Because the High Court ruled that Australian-issued credit cards fall under Australian jurisdiction and no other. This effectively legalises travel to Cuba for U.S./Australia dual nationals who live in Australia. Among other things, this ruling also has the effect that a U.S. court cannot subpoena any tranaction information from the credit cards company. This means that the U.S. government would be unable to gather any evidence to even ATTEMPT to enforce any travel restrictions. Making prosecution more difficult is not the same as a "legal loophole", now is it? |
#10
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Cuba Travel Ban
Vitaly Shmatikov wrote:
devil wrote: See my point? When there is a conflict, what do you do? Suicide perhaps? You obey both Australian and US laws. If you don't wish to obey US laws, you give up your US citizenship and stay out of the US. That isn't always possible. Canada has a law that makes it illegal for Canadian companies to obey the US laws regarding trade with Cuba. If you work at a Canadian subsidiary of a US corporation, you are subject to the US law, whether you are a US citizen or not, but simultaneously subject to the Canadian law. It is a Catch-22. |
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